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Posted: 10/28/2007 1:04 PM

#218401

	jim262

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Last Post:9/1/2010
Member Since:3/18/2004

Subject: Foolproof Pie Dough (add vodka?)

Mary

Here's what Rose Levy Beranbaum says about shrinking pie crusts. I think it is a bit more complicated than gluten formation since the vodka crust is designed to reduce gluten formation and the crust is anything but tough.

If I am going to blind bake a pie or tart crust, I am very careful when lining the pan to avoid stretching the dough where is climbs the pan side. I lift the overhanging dough and let it sag into the pan instead of letting it stretch out of the bottom of the pan. I proceed around the pan and repeat the procedure five or six times. I think dough that has been stretched has a tendency to shrink back to its original position so the less stretching means less shrinking. Resting the rolled dough before lining the pan may also be helpful.

Jim

Posted: 10/28/2007 1:17 PM

#218402

	cmintzd

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Total Posts:3360
Last Post:6/22/2010
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Mary,

I'm sorry - I should have thought to mention that the baking instructions are wrong in some of CI's incarnations of this recipe. They forget to tell you to use pie weights while blind baking it (and the first time I made this pie, it totally slumped on me as well). The purpose of the pie weights is to hold the pie crust's shape until it firms up enough with cooking to stay up on its own. Otherwise it will slide down the sides of the pie plate and sort of crumple at the bottom before it sets up. CI makes such a point of demonstrating this in all of their other recipes, I'm not sure why they forgot it for this one.

Carey

Posted: 10/28/2007 3:35 PM

#218415

	marygott

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Last Post:9/2/2010
Member Since:6/17/2006

Jim and Carey,
Thanks for your responses. The crust was nice and flaky so I am guessing the pie weights are the secret. I will try it next time, got to find another excuse to make some pies.

Mary
[Edited on 10/28/2007]

Posted: 10/28/2007 5:47 PM

#218433

	AllenCohn

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Total Posts:77
Last Post:6/17/2010
Member Since:4/20/2003

Subject: Shrinking Pie Crusts (was Foolproof Pie Dough (add vodka?))

Shrinking pie crusts is a problem everyone faces. Just to concur with everyone, the classic ways of reducing this problem are:

1) Avoid stretching the side dough when fitting the dough into the pie plate

2) After fitting the dough into the plate, put the plate into the fridge for 1/2 hour...in fact, CI seems to think you should also put the plate into the freezer for a 1/2 hour after that! (at least for their double crusted pies...)

And if you want the edge fluting to really hold its shape during baking (a different, but related problem):

1) Do the freezing trick

2) Chris Kimball suggested you can also take the drastic step of reducing the amount of fat (butter and shortening) in the dough

Happy baking!
Allen
San Francisco

Posted: 10/29/2007 9:57 AM

#218497

	Lanier

	Member

Total Posts:349
Last Post:8/15/2010
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Subject: Foolproof Pie Dough (add vodka?)

I'm a twice a year pie baker...and I love that pecan pie. What I learned last year from others on this board is that the foil is not enough to keep the crust from slipping down when you blind bake. On the advice of others (I wish I could remember who!) I now fill the shell all the way to the top with probably 2 pounds of dried beans in the initial part of the baking. I was amazed at how well this solves the problem. My pies still aren't as pretty an many of the photos people post, but they look a lot better!
karyn

Posted: 10/29/2007 5:59 PM

#218547

	auntcy1

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Last Post:8/31/2010
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I'm having a meltdown. My recipe for the fool proof pie dough and cranberry apple pie is gone and I need to make this tomorrow. I know I left the printed version upstate but thought for sure that I had it on my 'puter in the city but I'm not finding it and am not a website member.
Can someone PLEASE PLEASE either post or email me the original foolproof pie dough with the cranberry apple pie recipe?

Thanks from Me Nance, who is freaking out right now, and not in the Halloween way. I've made promises, I've made committments, but most importantly I've got a reputation to uphold!

Those who forget the pasta are condemned to reheat it.

Posted: 10/29/2007 6:22 PM

#218549

	vtcook

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Total Posts:1112
Last Post:9/2/2010
Member Since:6/1/2007

Nancy,
I'll write it out now.

"There is no love sincerer than the love of food."
- George Bernard Shaw

Posted: 10/29/2007 6:36 PM

#218551

	vtcook

	Member

Total Posts:1112
Last Post:9/2/2010
Member Since:6/1/2007

Apple-Cranberry Pie (dough recipe to folo)
2 cups frozen or fresh cranberries
1/4 cup orange juice
1 cup (7 oz) granulated sugar plus 1 tbsp for top of pie
1/2 tsp ground cinnamon
1/2 tsp.salt
1/4 cup water
1 tbsp.cornstarch
3-1/2 lbs.sweet apples (6-7 med.), peeled,cored cut into 1/4 inch slices
1 recipe foolproof pie dough
1 egg white, beaten lightly

1)Bring cranberries, juice, 1/2cup sugar, 1/4 tsp.cinnamon, and 1/4 tsp salt to a boil over med-high heat. Cook, stirring & pressing berries until berries have broken down & thickened to jamlike consistency - 10-12 min. Remove from heat - stir in water - cool to room temp. about 30 min.
2)Meanwhile mix 1/2 cup sugar, 1/4 tsp.cinnamon, 1/4 tsp.salt, and cornstarch - add apples & toss to combine. Microwave on high stirring every 3 min. until apples start to get transluscent around edges & liquid is thick & glossy - 10 to 14 min. Cool to room temp. about 30 min.
3)Place rimmed baking sheet on oven rack & heat to 425 degrees. Remove 1 disk of dough from fridge & roll out on generously floured - up to 1/4 cup flour - work surface to 12-inch circle 1/8-inch thick. Roll dough onto pie plate leaving at least 1-inch overhang. Refrigerate until dough is firm - about 30 minutes.
4)Transfer cooled cranberry mixture to doughlined pieplate & spread into even layer. Place apple mixture on top mounding slightly in center, push down any sharp apple edges.
5)Rool out second disk of dough (as above) & unroll loosely over pie leaving 1-inch overhang.
6)Using kitchen shears, cut through both layers leaving 1/2 inch overhang. Fold edges under & flute. Brush top & edges with egg white & sprinkle 1 tbsp.of sugar. Cut four 1-1/2inch slits in top of dough in X pattern.
7)Place pie on preheated baking sheet & bake until golden brown, 20 to 25 minutes. Reduce oven temp. to 375 degrees, rotate baking sheet, and bake 'till deep golden brown, 25 to 30 min.longer. Cool at least 2 hours on rack.

"There is no love sincerer than the love of food."
- George Bernard Shaw

Posted: 10/29/2007 6:46 PM

#218552

	vtcook

	Member

Total Posts:1112
Last Post:9/2/2010
Member Since:6/1/2007

Foolproof Pie Dough

2-1/2 cups (12-1/2 ounces) unbleached all purpose flour
1 tsp. table salt
2 tbsp. sugar
12 tbsp. (1-1/2 sticks)cold unsalted butter cut into 1/4 inch slices
1/2 cup cold vegetable shortening, cut into 4 pieces
1/4 cup cold vodka
1/4 cup cold water

1) Process 1-1/2 cups flour, salt, sugar in food processor until comb. - about 2 one-sec.pulses. Andd butter & shortening & process until homogenous dough just starts to collect in uneven clumps, about 15 sec. (start to look like cottage cheese with no uncoated flour). Scrape bowl & redistribute dough around blade. Add remaining cup flour & pulse until mixture is even dist. & mass is broken up, 4 to 6 quick pulses. Empty mixture into med. bowl.
2)Sprinkle vodka & water over mixture. With rubber spatula, use folding motion to mix, pressing down on on dought until slightly tacky & sticks together. Divide into two even balls, flatten into 4-inch disk. Wrap in plastic wrap & refrigerate at least 45 min. or up to two days.

"There is no love sincerer than the love of food."
- George Bernard Shaw

Posted: 10/29/2007 7:10 PM

#218554

	auntcy1

	Member

Total Posts:2364
Last Post:8/31/2010
Member Since:4/10/2003

LIFE SAVER - I owe you big time -
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Nancy

Those who forget the pasta are condemned to reheat it.

Posted: 10/30/2007 9:55 AM

#218609

	WavyLocks

	Member

Total Posts:76
Last Post:4/11/2010
Member Since:1/22/2007

I've played around with this recipe and its' techniques a time or two, and thought I'd mention what's worked best for me, piecrust-wise.

1) Use a browning bag full of beans as pie weights. Knot the top, for easy removal. There should be enough beans in the bag to entirely fill the pie plate, to support the sides completely.

2) I get better results if I roll out a two-crust amount of dough to the right thickness (on floured/greased parchment paper), then fold it, crust side out, to assist with placing the crust in the pan. As others have said, just let the crust slump into the pan, to fill it, rather than trying to stretch the dough. Cut away the excess dough around the edges.

3) The Pie-crust mix (in a box) you get at the store work better for me than the frozen or refrigerated doughs. Substituting vodka for half the water works well in these crusts, too. In a pinch, this crust-in-a-box is a lifesaver.

4) In order to get the bottom browned in a filled/baked pie, without burning the top edges, I find it's best to use a metal pie plate rather than glass or ceramic. Set it on a baking sheet while it's cooking. Blind bake the entire crust, first with weights, for about 25 minutes, then take the weights out, and bake the crust about ten minutes more, until it's just lightly golden brown all over. Then I pour in the filling, and
tent aluminum foil over the entire pie, and bake it til it's just about ready, 30-40 minutes then remove the foil for the last few minutes of cooking.

I seem to recall that I lowered the temperature in the oven at various points, since while cooking the empty shell, all I really want to do is get it to a nice, light, pale brown color, not a deep golden brown, then while cooking the filled pie, I didn't want to burn the top edges of the crust.

(I recently baked a chocolate chess pie this way, and after about 30 minutes of baking, with the filling, covered, the center was still quite liquid, so I took the foil off, and cooked it a few minutes more, to make sure the center was properly set. I think the eggs have to reach a certain minimum temperature to set up properly, time before last, the center was too soft. Yummy, but underbaked.)

I hope my experiments are of use to someone else. :) I'm still quite pleased that I managed to get the crust so nicely brown, without burning the top edges. :)

Posted: 10/30/2007 6:02 PM

#218660

	MrCitron

	Member

Total Posts:11
Last Post:11/15/2009
Member Since:7/11/2006

This weekend I used this recipe to make an apple pie!

I had never made a pie dough before and I didn't have any trouble with this recipe. The crust came out *very* tender and nicely flaky. I was a little worried about how wet the dough was before I put it in the refrigerator. As you can see, it was quite wet, but after chilling, it was pretty easy to handle.

The only problem I had with my pie was not related to the crust specifically, but was the common problem of a large void space under the top crust after the apples cooked down. Short of pre-cooking the apples, as CI recommends for the deep dish apple pie, does anybody have any advice for avoiding this problem?

Posted: 10/30/2007 8:44 PM

#218672

	AllenCohn

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Total Posts:77
Last Post:6/17/2010
Member Since:4/20/2003

Nice looking crust, MrCitron.

I encourage you to just break down and pre-cook the apples. The CI method really does preserve the texture of the apples.

As a bonus, you avoid the "doming problem" (I never have it anymore. Plus it eliminates a lot of liquid, which keeps the pie from being soupy or requiring much thickener (CI uses none, but I still add a little).

The other solution to doming is to add even more fat to the crust...that will help it droop down as the apples cook down.

Allen
San Francisco

Posted: 11/3/2007 8:59 PM

#219070

	sbinto

	Member

Total Posts:2
Last Post:11/3/2007
Member Since:4/22/2005

Hi there,

I made crust with lattice top and it turned out really well (see picture) ...

I found this a really interesting experience, after mixing the dough, I thought it was going to be a complete failure. It was really wet and seemed too pasty to be flakey. I was so worried (and didn't want to waste the filling)that I did a pre-bake jam tart to test - it was perfect, so I went ahead.

The crust was really easy to roll out, and the lattice worked fine (my first time doing one!) - I did chill in the freezer mid way through though.

I think this recipe puts an end to my "pie crust rolling out fears"!
Susan

Posted: 11/3/2007 9:14 PM

#219072

	sbinto

	Member

Total Posts:2
Last Post:11/3/2007
Member Since:4/22/2005

Do over, realized the pic in my previous post was too small to be helpful!

Posted: 11/4/2007 6:43 AM

#219085

	Easy Bake

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Total Posts:8750
Last Post:9/2/2010
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WOW

Posted: 11/4/2007 9:34 AM

#219103

	anisette

	Member

Total Posts:1994
Last Post:4/8/2010
Member Since:9/23/2003

Susan, that's beautiful!

And welcome to the board!

- Jen

A balanced diet is a cookie in each hand
-Miss Piggy

Posted: 11/9/2007 11:13 AM

#219771

	sbp

	Member

Total Posts:3
Last Post:12/5/2007
Member Since:11/9/2007

I make a variation on my grandmother's deep dish pie -- which is made in an aluminum roasting pan with about 10 pounds of apples. We had gone apple picking, and I had about 80lbs of apples. Good thing I had just bought the apple peeler/slicer recommended by CI.

Decided to use the Foolproof Pie Dough recipe. I need to make a double recipe per pie -- and I made 8 pies total -- so I got a good handle on the recipe. Last things first: I freeze the pies prior to baking. Just had one last week, and it was fantastic.

A few details. The dough was much less sturdy than a conventional pie dough. The first batch I followed the recipe exactly, and when I rolled out the dough (roughly 12x16 inch rectangle for the bottom crust, mind you), it was impossible to pick up. Tore to pieces. I had to work in quite a bit more flour. After that, I worked in more flour to start, and started rolling the dough before it warmed up much. I usually am very careful to use just barely enough liquid to get it cohesive, and not to overwork -- which makes rolling it out a real pain with the cracking. This dough is much easier.

After laying the bottom crust in the pan, I melt some white chocolate with butter and spread it over the bottom and up the sides with a spatula. Get as thin a coating as possible. This completely seals in the juices -- bottom crust stays crisp for days. I also macerate the apples with sugar/cinnamon in a 2 gallon plastic bag for an hour before filling, then drain the liquid, and boil it down to a syrup. This time, I added cream to the syrup to make an apple flavored caramel. Then, add ground tapioca and a little flour to the apples in the bag, whoosh around to mix, and dump into the pie crust. Pour on the caramel, on goes the top crust. Brush with cream, demerara sugar, and slice the top with a sharp knife into squares (like cutting brownies). This creates steam vents and a guide for serving.

It takes forever to bake - about 3 hours. I do have to cover the edges, then the entire crust so it doesn't overcook while the apples are finishing. When the whole thing shows caramelized juices bubbling up all over, it's done.

Posted: 11/11/2007 8:31 PM

#219975

	Scooter123

	Member

Total Posts:2
Last Post:11/20/2007
Member Since:11/11/2007

Wonderful Crust.

But I was quite surprised at the fat content. My typical ratio of fat to flour is about a third less; and I found the dough shrank more than I expected.

However, this was a very flaky crust and the butter makes it quite tastey.

I'm going to try some variations to reduce shrinking. Any ideas?

Posted: 11/14/2007 2:40 AM

#220304

	HeIsCrafty

	Member

Total Posts:6
Last Post:12/22/2008
Member Since:6/8/2006

I'm wondering if and how this recipe could be used for recipes like the Chocolate Caramel Walnut Tart. Any suggestions?

Jason in Los Angeles
[Edited on 11/14/2007]

Posted: 11/14/2007 6:38 AM

#220319

	jim262

	Member

Total Posts:4011
Last Post:9/1/2010
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I used this recipe to for a apple, sausage, and cheese quiche that required blind baking. It worked well without shrinking. Just follow the recipe instructions for making the edge double thickness,

I don't think I would use it for the Chocolate Caramel Walnut Tart. Without the nuts and additional sugar in the crust, you will lose important flavor components in the finished tart. The crust in the recipe may be delicate, but I think it would be worth the effort.

Jim

Posted: 11/14/2007 11:21 AM

#220348

	swee'pea

	Member

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Member Since:10/5/2007

Subject: Too Much shortening?

I, too, was surprised at the amount of fat called for. Nonetheless, I made the recipe. The dough was easy to handle, which I liked a lot, as cracking has often been a problem. My result was like yours, Moeandmo. The crust was not very flaky but more biscuit-like. It tasted fine. I will continue to use vodka in my crust in the future, but I can't use that much fat in the dough and I'll use all vegetable shortening. My personal preference is for an all-shortening dough as I believe all shortening makes a better crust, quality-wise and flavor-wise. I prefer my crust to be a backdrop for the filling, not a competitor. Fillings are generally pretty rich, so a bland crusts balances the richness.

Can someone answer why the remarkable increase in fat over traditional recipes?

I also want to add my STRONG request for CI to publish hand method alternatives to food processor instructions. I don't own a food processor and probably never will. I have a small kitchen with little storage and counter space.

I'd also like to note that the article for the amazing pie dough recipe clearly stated that it took into account not simply ingredients, but also ease of making, which is why the food processor method was used. In my not-so humble opinion, the time you spend washing your food processor is the same time you spend in cutting in the fat by hand, the latter method not known for dangerous over-mixing due to a heavy finger on a button. Given the much better control hand mixing affords and the prospect of fewer dirty items to wash, I'll use my handy dandy pastry cutter any day.

swee'pea

Posted: 11/14/2007 11:40 AM

#220355

	auntcy1

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Total Posts:2364
Last Post:8/31/2010
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Subject: Foolproof Pie Dough (add vodka?)

Totally off-topic but just a note to swee'pea that its not a good idea to change the subject of an existing thread. Its not a pet peeve, it simply makes it difficult to search for threads in the future. I've changed it back to the original subject.

And welcome to the board BTW!

Nancy
[Edited on 11/14/2007]

Those who forget the pasta are condemned to reheat it.

Posted: 11/14/2007 1:15 PM

#220378

	jim262

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Last Post:9/1/2010
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20 Tablespoons of fat has been typical for CI pie crusts dating back to The Best Pie Dough from 1994 so while it may represent a dramatic increase in fat over some recipes, it isn't a departure for CI. It does result in flavorful pie crusts that brown beautifully.

The Vodka Crust can be made with much less fat if you wish. I used one stick [8 Tablespoons] of butter and 4 Tablespoons of shortening in my most recent crust and it worked just fine. It was not as flavorful as my first crust that I made according to the recipe, but it worked easily with the same amount of water and vodka.

As much as I agree with your statement about cleaning a food processor, it is the most effective tool for making pie crusts though a stand mixer can make a pretty good crust too. Conventional hand methods of cutting in dough may require some beating with a spoon to get the uniform coating of fat on the first half of the flour and that seems to be key to this recipe and its predictable amount of liquid.

Jim

Posted: 11/14/2007 1:58 PM

#220387

	trinket

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Last Post:8/30/2010
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Does anyone have any experience in using flavored vodka in the crust? I have a bottle of lemon vodka, and would like to sub about half regular and half lemon in the pie crust. Anyone have any thoughts or experience with this?

trinket.

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